Lacking Natural Simplicity (Posts about retro-clone)https://tkurtbond.github.io/categories/retro-clone.atom2024-01-23T18:49:37ZT. Kurt BondNikolaD&D Retro-clones and Neo-cloneshttps://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/2024-01-21T13:43:21-05:002024-01-21T13:43:21-05:00T. Kurt Bond<p>(See <a class="reference external" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/pages/rpg-vocabulary/#Retro-clone">Retro-clone</a> and <a class="reference external" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/pages/rpg-vocabulary/#Neo-clone">Neo-clone</a> for definitions.)</p>
<p>All of the retro-clones and neo-clones mentioned below are games with
which I have some familiarity. Many of them I've played. The others
I've read. All of them have something interesting to recommend them.</p>
<p>There was a time when Wizards of the Coast hadn't made old versions of
D&D available easily, and the retro-clones were very important then.
Even now some retro-clones or neo-clones have better presentation than
the original rules (<a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#old-school-essentials-classic-fantasy">Old-School Essentials Classic Fantasy</a>) or
present a simpler version of classic rules (<a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64332/Labyrinth-Lord-Revised-Edition">Labyrinth Lord: Revised
Edition</a> with <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/78523/Advanced-Edition-Companion-Labyrinth-Lord">Advanced Edition Companion</a> for AD&D), or provide
additional details and further development of a particular D&D version
(<a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#adventurer-conqueror-king-system">Adventurer, Conqueror, King System</a>).</p>
<p>And, of course, if you are playing with kids who might not have the
money to buy PDFs of old versions of D&D, many of the retro-clones are
available in PDF or online legally for free.</p>
<section id="what-do-you-want">
<h2>What do you want?</h2>
<p>Want a simple, clear, exceptionally well organized and presented
version of the classic <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1981_revision">Basic/Expert D&D</a> (B/X) rules? See
<a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#old-school-essentials-classic-fantasy">Old-School Essentials Classic Fantasy</a>.</p>
<p>Want races separate from classes and the most of the extra classes,
races, and many spells from AD&D 1E, all on the 1 to 14 level scale of
the classic <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1981_revision">Basic/Expert D&D</a> (B/X)? See <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#old-school-essentials-advanced-fantasy">Old-School Essentials
Advanced Fantasy</a>.</p>
<p>Want to play classic AD&D 1E modules with all races, classes, and most
spells from AD&D 1E, on a mostly 1 to 20 level scale, with 9<sup>th</sup> level magic user spells and 7<sup>th</sup> cleric spells, but
with simpler mechanics? See <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#labyrinth-lord-revised-edition-advanced-edition-companion">Labyrinth Lord: Revised Edition &
Advanced Edition Companion</a>, or <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#advanced-labyrinth-lord">Advanced Labyrinth Lord</a>.</p>
<p>Want something almost like AD&D 1E? See <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#osric">OSRIC</a>.</p>
<p>Want something that feels like <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_(1974)">Original D&D</a>, just what was in the
three original Little Brown Books? See <a class="reference external" href="https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/matthew-finch/swords-wizardry-whitebox-rules-softcover/paperback/product-1wzw887q.html?page=1&pageSize=4">Swords & Wizardry Whitebox</a>,
<cite>Labyrinth Lord</cite>'s <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#original-edition-characters">Original Edition Characters</a>, <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#delving-deeper">Delving Deeper</a>,
or <a class="reference external" href="https://traversefantasy.itch.io/fmc">Fantastic Medieval Campaigns</a>, especially if you want a
Chainmail-style system for individual and mass combat. Do you also
want the thief class? See <a class="reference external" href="https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/matthew-finch/swords-wizardry-core-rules-softcover/paperback/product-1yvrdzg2.html?">Swords & Wizardry Core</a>.</p>
<p>Want something that feels like <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_(1974)">Original D&D</a>, just before AD&D 1E
came out, with the races and classes (except for gnomes and
illusionists) and spells familiar from AD&D 1E, but simpler, on a
mostly 1 to 20+ level scale, with up to 9<sup>th</sup> level magic user
spells and 7<sup>th</sup> level cleric spells? See <a class="reference external" href="https://www.froggodgames.com/product/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook/">Swords & Wizardry
Complete</a>.</p>
<p>Like the 1 to 14 level scale and the lower hit dice of <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1981_revision">Basic/Expert
D&D</a>, but want more detailed rules, especially magic research,
economics, and domain play (the D&D end game, where the players build
strongholds and rule), with rules for building campaign specific
classes and races, and don't mind some slightly different mechanics?
See the <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#adventurer-conqueror-king-system">Adventurer, Conqueror, King System</a>.</p>
<p>Want the 1 to 36 level scale of Frank Mentzer's <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1983_revision">BECMI</a> rules or Aaron
Allston's <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1991_revision">Rules Cyclopedia</a>? See <a class="reference internal" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#dark-dungeons">Dark Dungeons</a>.</p>
</section>
<section id="basic-fantasy">
<h2>Basic Fantasy</h2>
<p>I <em>think</em> I looked at <a class="reference external" href="https://www.basicfantasy.org/">Basic Fantasy</a> first, but it wasn't what I
was looking for at the time.</p>
<p>All its PDFs are free, and the print on demand books are <em>very</em>
inexpensive.</p>
<p>I notice that the character class tables all go to
level 20. I wonder if this is a residual artifact of the <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons#Dungeons_&_Dragons_3rd_edition">D&D 3E</a>
character classes going to level 20, since it doesn't match the B/X
model that that is implied by the Basic Fantasy website with the
statement “The Basic Fantasy Role-Playing Game is a rules-light game
system modeled on the classic RPG rules of the early 1980's.”
Compare that to Labyrinth Lord's rescaling of B/X to match
AD&D.</p>
</section>
<section id="labyrinth-lord">
<h2>Labyrinth Lord</h2>
<section id="original-edition-characters">
<h3>Original Edition Characters</h3>
<p><cite>Original Edition Characters</cite> is a player's supplement for <cite>Labyrinth
Lord</cite> that provides characters more like those of <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_(1974)">Original D&D</a>.
(<a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/58558/Original-Edition-Characters?manufacturers_id=760">OECPDF</a>, <a class="reference external" href="https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/daniel-proctor/original-edition-characters/paperback/product-1yvzkkwd.html">OECPOD</a>)</p>
</section>
<section id="labyrinth-lord-revised-edition-advanced-edition-companion">
<h3>Labyrinth Lord: Revised Edition & Advanced Edition Companion</h3>
<p>While <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64332/Labyrinth-Lord-Revised-Edition">Labyrinth Lord: Revised Edition</a> (LLRE; PDF and POD) has been
criticized for not being a completely faithful retro-clone of the
Moldvay/Cook/Marsh Basic/Expert D&D rules (B/X), I think it still
holds a useful spot. The changes that were made in the revised
version of <cite>Labyrinth Lord</cite> made it easier to be used with <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/78523/Advanced-Edition-Companion-Labyrinth-Lord">Advanced
Edition Companion</a> (AEC). It adapted the 1–14 level scale of B/X to
the scale of AD&D 1E, generally about 20 levels, and with AEC it added
the separate races and the additional classes, spells, monsters, and
magic items of AD&D 1E.</p>
<p>There are versions of LLRE and AEC available for free: <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64331/Labyrinth-Lord-Revised-Edition-noart-version">No-art LLRE</a> and
<a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/78524/Advanced-Edition-Companion-Labyrinth-Lord-noart-version">no-art AEC</a>.</p>
</section>
<section id="advanced-labyrinth-lord">
<h3>Advanced Labyrinth Lord</h3>
<p><cite>Advanced Labyrinth Lord</cite> compiles the information from <cite>Labyrinth
Lord: Revised Edition</cite> and <cite>Advanced Edition Companion</cite> into one
convenient book (<a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/259983/Advanced-Labyrinth-Lord-Dragon-Cover">ALL</a>, PDF and POD).</p>
</section>
</section>
<section id="swords-wizardry">
<h2>Swords & Wizardry</h2>
<p><cite>Swords & Wizardry</cite> is inspired by the original D&D booklets and
associated magazine articles. It comes in various versions, depending
on how much of the supplemental material you want.</p>
<p>I find the original D&D booklets very interesting from a historical
standpoint, but find <cite>Swords & Wizardry</cite> easier to use at the table.</p>
<section id="swords-wizardry-white-box">
<h3>Swords & Wizardry White Box</h3>
<p>This is inspired by the original three booklets of D&D, so it includes
only the Fighter, Magic-User, and Cleric, so it strips away everything
but the absolute essentials.</p>
</section>
<section id="swords-wizardry-core">
<h3>Swords & Wizardry Core</h3>
<p>This adds the thief class.</p>
</section>
<section id="swords-wizardry-complete">
<h3>Swords & Wizardry Complete</h3>
<p>If you are looking to play something with the feel of AD&D 1E, but
want something even simpler than <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64332/Labyrinth-Lord-Revised-Edition">Labyrinth Lord: Revised Edition</a>
and <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/78523/Advanced-Edition-Companion-Labyrinth-Lord">Advanced Edition Companion</a>, this is an excellent choice, as
long as you don't need half-orcs, gnomes or illusionists.</p>
<p>I like how it discusses different ways to interpret the original
rules, often giving more than option for use with S&WC.</p>
</section>
</section>
<section id="old-school-essentials">
<h2>Old-School Essentials</h2>
<p><cite>Old-School Essentials</cite> (OSE) is published by <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/">Necrotic Gnome</a> in two
flavors so far, <cite>Classic Fantasy</cite> and <cite>Advanced Fantasy</cite>.</p>
<p>In my opinion, OSE has improved the clarity, organization, and
presentation of its rules over the already very good <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1981_revision">Basic/Expert
D&D</a> rules.<a class="footnote-reference brackets" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#although" id="footnote-reference-1" role="doc-noteref"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span>1<span class="fn-bracket">]</span></a> As well as clear wording it uses layout and
typography to enhance its presentation of the rules, from the use of
one and two page spreads that completely cover one subject to the
careful use of bold and bullet points to call out important
information, OSE really shines. The <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/adventures">adventures</a> that <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/">Necrotic
Gnome</a> have produced for it (<a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/adventures/products/the-hole-in-the-oak">The Hole in the Oak</a>, <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/adventures/products/dolmenwood-winters-daughter">Winter's
Daughter</a>, <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/adventures/products/the-incandescent-grottoes">The Incandescent Grottoes</a>, <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/adventures/products/the-isle-of-the-plangent-mage">The Isle of the Plangent
Mage</a>, <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/adventures/products/halls-of-the-blood-king">Halls of the Blood King</a>, and <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/adventures/products/holy-mountain-shaker">Holy Mountain Shaker</a>)
continue this excellent use of layout, bold, and bullet points to
present their information clearly and without the dreaded “wall of
text” or “read aloud text”.</p>
<aside class="footnote-list brackets">
<aside class="footnote brackets" id="although" role="doc-footnote">
<span class="label"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span><a role="doc-backlink" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2024/01/21/dnd-retro-clones-and-neo-clones/#footnote-reference-1">1</a><span class="fn-bracket">]</span></span>
<p>Although it has been suggested to me that while OSE excels <em>as a
reference</em>, the original <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1981_revision">Basic/Expert D&D</a> rules have more
explanations of why things work as they do. I need to reread them
in light of this suggestion.</p>
</aside>
</aside>
<section id="old-school-essentials-classic-fantasy">
<h3>Old-School Essentials Classic Fantasy</h3>
<p><cite>Old-School Essentials Classic Fantasy</cite> (<a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/rules/products/old-school-essentials-rules-tome">OSECF</a>) is the best organized
and presented version of the classic rules from the Moldvay/Cook/Marsh
Basic/Expert D&D sets. This is the game that I wish had been around
when I started playing. There is an SRD (<a class="reference external" href="https://oldschoolessentials.necroticgnome.com/srd/">OSESRD</a>). I particularly
like the Classic Fantasy Rules Tome, which collects everything into
one substantial book, but there is also a version split into multiple
books covering separate sections of the rules, so that the magic-user
can look up his spells while the fighter is looking at the combat
rules.</p>
</section>
<section id="old-school-essentials-advanced-fantasy">
<h3>Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy</h3>
<p><cite>Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy</cite> is the best organized and
presented version of the ideas of the classic rules from 1<sup>st</sup> edition AD&D, scaled to match the 1–14 level scope of the
Moldvay/Cook/Marsh Basic/Expert D&D sets. If I was starting a new
D&D campaign these are the rules I'd use, all things being equal.</p>
<p><cite>Old-School Essentials Advanced Fantasy</cite> is collected in the <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/rules/products/old-school-essentials-advanced-fantasy-players-tome">Player's
Tome</a> and <a class="reference external" href="https://necroticgnome.com/collections/rules/products/old-school-essentials-advanced-fantasy-referees-tome">Referee's Tome</a>.</p>
</section>
</section>
<section id="adventurer-conqueror-king-system">
<h2>Adventurer, Conqueror, King System</h2>
<p>The name of this system is usually abbreviated as ACKS. One of its
explicit design goals for to supply more rules for the end of game of
Original D&D, where the players built strongholds and ruled, hence the
name. It also has a more detailed economic system. It is more
complicated than OD&D or B/X, but in a completely different way than
AD&D 1E.</p>
<p>It uses some different mechanics, especially for “to hit” roles, so it
might be considered a <a class="reference external" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/pages/rpg-vocabulary/#Neo-clone">Neo-Clone</a>, but it is inspired by B/X D&D, and
keeps to the same 1 to 14 level scale of B/X. I particularly like its
rules for building your own campaign specific classes from the
<cite>Player's Companion</cite>.</p>
</section>
<section id="osric">
<h2>OSRIC</h2>
<p>I looked at OSRIC (<a class="reference external" href="http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/">OSRICKnK</a>), (a free <a class="reference external" href="http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/download.html">OSRIC PDF</a> is available, as
well as a free PDF of the <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2411/Usherwood-Publishing">Usherwood Publishing</a> <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/111392/OSRIC-Pocket-SRD-PDF">OSRIC Pocket SRD</a>
version) but was more interested in <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Basic_Set#1981_revision">Basic/Expert D&D</a> retroclones at
the time. I think it is a well written, organized, and presented
restatement of AD&D 1E. The <a class="reference external" href="https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/">Black Blade Publishing</a> print edition
is a very nice offset printed volume with a sewn spine. The <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2411/Usherwood-Publishing">Usherwood
Publishing</a> <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/111392/OSRIC-Pocket-SRD-PDF">OSRIC Pocket SRD</a> (PDF, POD) is quite affordable. I
just wish OSRIC wasn't missing some of the classes. (I miss the Monk
in particular.) I was also surprised by how many of the little quirks
and restrictions of AD&D 1E have been ironed out, although many
remain. <a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/2411/Usherwood-Publishing">Usherwood Publishing</a> has some supplements that add some of
the missing classes, though I'm not sure I like all their versions.</p>
</section>
<section id="dark-dungeons">
<h2>Dark Dungeons</h2>
<p><cite>Dark Dungeons</cite> is available in a free PDF (<a class="reference external" href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177410/Dark-Dungeons">DDFreePDF</a>), a hardback
(<a class="reference external" href="https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/blacky-the-blackball/dark-dungeons-hardback/hardcover/product-16q68rge.html">DDHardback</a>), a paperback (<a class="reference external" href="https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/blacky-the-blackball/dark-dungeons-softcover/paperback/product-18n6qr25.html">DDPaperback</a>), and a deluxe color edition
(<a class="reference external" href="https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/blacky-the-blackball/dark-dungeons-deluxe/hardcover/product-1gvq52ng.html">DDDeluxe</a>). It has a <a class="reference external" href="https://gurbintrollgames.wordpress.com/dark-dungeons/">home page</a>.</p>
<p>This is a retro-clone of The D&D Rules Cyclopedia.</p>
<p><cite>Dark Dungeons</cite> does have <a class="reference external" href="https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?p=60695#p60695">changes</a> from the Rules Cyclopedia,
integrating some optional rules, extrapolating, clarifying and
adjusting other rules, and integrating rules for Immortals. It does
not include the Mystara setting and cosmology elements. The
monsters <a class="reference external" href="https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?p=60126#p60126">differ</a> somewhat.</p>
</section>
<section id="delving-deeper">
<h2>Delving Deeper</h2>
<p><cite>Delving Deeper</cite> (<a class="reference external" href="http://www.immersiveink.com/?page_id=22">Delving Deeper Description</a>, <a class="reference external" href="http://forum.immersiveink.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=113">Delving Deeper
PDFs</a>) works very hard to be as faithful to the 3 Little Brown Books
of Original D&D (along with the relevant partsof Chainmail, with which
they were intended to be used) as possible. The <a class="reference external" href="https://www.lulu.com/shop/simon-j-bull/delving-deeper-reference-rules-compendium/paperback/product-21911339.html">Delving Deeper V4
Reference Rules Compendium</a> is a Print-on-Demand version of the three
booklets. There is also the <a class="reference external" href="http://ddo.immersiveink.com/dd.html">Delving Deeper SRD</a>. I was
particularly interested in Version 5 of <cite>Delving Deeper</cite>, as that
promised annotated versions of the three booklets, but only <a class="reference external" href="http://download.immersiveink.com/DDRefRulesV5/HeroesAndMagicV5_Gamma_Annotated_Alpha_20180722.pdf">one</a> of the
annotated versions has been completed so far.</p>
</section>
<section id="fantastic-medieval-campaigns">
<h2>Fantastic Medieval Campaigns</h2>
<p><a class="reference external" href="https://traversefantasy.itch.io/fmc">Fantastic Medieval Campaigns</a> (FMC) is a retro-clone of the three
Little Brown Books of Original D&D and Chainmail, available for free
in PDF and in print on demand. I gather it was something the author
did just so they had something easier to follow when playing OD&D with
friends. I'm glad they made it available.</p>
<p>Unlike a lot of clones of OD&D, FMC, as well as including the familiar
d20-based combat system, also includes a clone of the Chainmail rules,
which can be used either for individual combat or mass combat. FMC is
very well organized, and could be used by someone new to D&D to
play in a group where everybody else is using the OD&D rulebooks, or
as the rules for a whole group.</p>
<p>Basically, FMC is a very well written and organized restatement of
Chainmail and the three LBB. The layout and design are uncluttered;
the art is charming, the organization is superb, and the writing is
clear. The physical book is an excellent example of the possibilities
of print-on-demand, with the different sections of the book printed on
different colored backgrounds, making finding specific sections much
easier. The table of the contents at the front of the book is
reasonably detailed, and each section has its own table of contents as
its first page, opposite the title page for the section. The book has
a glossary and indexes for monsters, spells, and tables.</p>
<p>In the end this is an exceptional restatement and clarification of the
original game.</p>
</section>
<section id="see-also">
<h2>See Also</h2>
<p>If you want even more information, you could try <a class="reference external" href="http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/">Taxidermic
Owlbear</a>'s <a class="reference external" href="http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html">D&D Retroclones</a> (and <a class="reference external" href="http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/downloads.html">downloads</a>) and <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_retro-clones">Wikipedia</a>.</p>
<p>There are also retro-clones of games other than D&D, if you go
looking.</p>
</section>I wish the B/X and OD&D retro-clones had added a "Saving Throw" entry for spellshttps://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2021/07/23/i-wish-the-bx-and-odd-retro-clones-had-added-a-saving-throw-entry-for-spells/2021-07-23T04:08:53-04:002021-07-23T04:08:53-04:00T. Kurt Bond<p>One simple improvement on B/X D&D and OD&D that wouldn't have been a
change in the rules, just a change in presentation, that I've wished
that the B/X and OD&D retro-clones had made was adding a “Saving
Throw” entry to their spell descriptions, like that of AD&D. As it
is, you have to read the spell description to figure out if a saving
throw is allowed and what it means.</p>
<p><cite>Basic Fantasy</cite>; <cite>Labyrinth Lord</cite> and <cite>Advanced Edition Companion</cite>;
<cite>Old-School Essentials</cite> <cite>Classic Fantasy</cite> and <cite>Advanced Fantasy</cite>;
<cite>Sword & Wizardry Complete</cite>, <cite>Core</cite>, and <cite>Whitebox</cite>; and <cite>Delving
Deeper</cite>, all fail to do this.</p>
<p>I'm <strong>really</strong> surprised that <cite>Old-School Essentials</cite> didn't do this,
with all its other improvements to the presentation of B/X style
games.</p>
<p>Oh well. Maybe OSE will add it in a later edition.</p>
<p><em>Last edited: 2021-07-25 13:23:05 EDT</em></p>
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End: -->Swords & Wizardry: Complete Ruleshttps://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2010/12/16/swords-wizardry-complete-rules/2010-12-16T23:39:26-05:002010-12-16T23:39:26-05:00T. Kurt Bond<p>I bought a copy of the PDF and paperback <a class="footnote-reference brackets" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2010/12/16/swords-wizardry-complete-rules/#paperback" id="footnote-reference-1" role="doc-noteref"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span>1<span class="fn-bracket">]</span></a> of <a class="reference external" href="https://www.froggodgames.com/product/swords-wizardry-complete-rulebook/">Swords &
Wizardry: Complete Rules</a> <a class="footnote-reference brackets" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2010/12/16/swords-wizardry-complete-rules/#rulesbook-vs-rules" id="footnote-reference-2" role="doc-noteref"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span>2<span class="fn-bracket">]</span></a> from <a class="reference external" href="http://www.talesofthefroggod.com/">Frog God
Games</a> this evening, and after a quick scan of the PDF my initial
reaction is positive: it does look like what I'd hoped it would be: a
much better organized restatement of the seven original <cite>D&D</cite>
booklets, and I think it is likely to become one of my favorite
versions of <cite>D&D</cite>. Matthew Finch of <a class="reference external" href="http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/">Mythemere Games</a> and Frog God
Games have done what looks like a fine job.</p>
<p><cite>Swords & Wizardry: Complete Rules</cite> is a <a class="reference external" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/pages/rpg-vocabulary/#retro-clone">retro-clone</a> of original
<cite>D&D</cite>.</p>
<p>And the text is OGL Open Game Content; to quote from the OGL section
at the back of the book:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>This entire work is designated as Open Game Content under the OGL,
with the exception of the trademarks “Swords & Wizardry,” “S&W,”
“Mythmere Games,” “FGG,” “Frog God Games,” and with the exception of
all artwork. These trademarks, artwork, and the Trade Dress of this
work (font, layout, style of artwork, etc.) are reserved as Product
Identity.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There is a <a class="reference external" href="http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2010/12/mini-review-swords-wizardry-complete.html">mini-review</a> at <a class="reference external" href="http://www.tenkarstavern.com">Tenkar's Tavern</a>, and a <a class="reference external" href="http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=18921">thread</a> at
<a class="reference external" href="http://www.therpgsite.com/">theRPGsite</a> with some discussion about it, including a very
interesting <a class="reference external" href="http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=425965&postcount=30">post</a> about the ranger.</p>
<p>I'm going to have to sit down and read this in detail very soon.</p>
<aside class="footnote-list brackets">
<aside class="footnote brackets" id="paperback" role="doc-footnote">
<span class="label"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span><a role="doc-backlink" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2010/12/16/swords-wizardry-complete-rules/#footnote-reference-1">1</a><span class="fn-bracket">]</span></span>
<p>I'd have liked to have gotten one of the hardback
copies, but those sold out long before I'd realized they'd been
published.</p>
</aside>
<aside class="footnote brackets" id="rulesbook-vs-rules" role="doc-footnote">
<span class="label"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span><a role="doc-backlink" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2010/12/16/swords-wizardry-complete-rules/#footnote-reference-2">2</a><span class="fn-bracket">]</span></span>
<p>The cover says <cite>Swords & Wizardry Complete
Rulebook</cite>, while the title page says <cite>Swords & Wizardry Core Rules</cite>.</p>
</aside>
</aside>4E D&D admits what game it's always been?https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/10/06/4e-dnd-admits-what-game-its-always-been/2008-10-06T18:30:11-05:002008-10-06T18:30:11-05:00T. Kurt Bond<p>I've been hearing a lot of people saying, in effect, that 4E D&D
admits what kind of game D&D has always been and tunes everything for
that: butt-kicking tactical battle-mat kick-in-the-door, kill
everything, and take it's stuff gamist play. <a class="footnote-reference brackets" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/10/06/4e-dnd-admits-what-game-its-always-been/#whatpodcast" id="footnote-reference-1" role="doc-noteref"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span>1<span class="fn-bracket">]</span></a> Right now
I'm ignoring the later bit about what 4E does and how well it does it,
and looking at the earlier bit's claims about “the kind of game D&D
has always been”. I'm not convinced.</p>
<p>This post, right now, is sort of a placeholder. I intend to fill in
my history with D&D and look at the various editions of D&D that I've
got and see if they support the “the kind of game D&D has always been”
remark.</p>
<p>As I've said <a class="reference external" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/10/01/triad-odnd-tekumel-tnt/">elsewhere</a> the release of 4E and the choruses of “It's
not real D&D” actually got me interested me in looking back at what
D&D really was, so I bought PDFs of Original D&D (from <a class="reference external" href="http://www.rpgnow.com/">RPGNow</a>
<a class="footnote-reference brackets" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/10/06/4e-dnd-admits-what-game-its-always-been/#wotc-kerfluffle" id="footnote-reference-2" role="doc-noteref"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span>2<span class="fn-bracket">]</span></a>) and its supplements and Chainmail and printed
them all out and bound them in 8.5”x5” pamphlets, in more or less the
original form factor. I've read <cite>Chainmail</cite> and the three pamphlets
that made up the original D&D release (X, Y, Z) completely, and have
scanned the others. (Oddly enough, I've still not got beyond scanning
4E.)</p>
<section id="od-d">
<h2>OD&D</h2>
<p>The original version of D&D, along with some of its supplements, was
still available in some hobby shops when I started playing RPGs, but
the group I played with had was strictly AD&D, so I completely missed
out playing the original, as well as its follow-ons, the various
versions of Basic D&D.</p>
<p>Some of the retrogaming community has commented that the play
experience for this for this version of D&D is very different from all
versions that came after it. From my initial reading, I agree.</p>
</section>
<section id="blue-box-holmes-d-d">
<h2>Blue Box/Holmes D&D</h2>
<p>I got this boxed set for Christmas one year as a young teenager, and
was fascinated. My box came with B2 — The Keep on the Borderlands.
The group I ended up with, however, played AD&D. I think I ran this a
couple of times for my younger brother. My original copy of the
rulebook walked off many years ago, but I picked up the reproduction
cheap a year or so after the anniversary.</p>
</section>
<section id="moldvay-cook-basic-expert-d-d">
<h2>Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert D&D</h2>
<p>I saw this in stores as a teenager, but never picked it up.</p>
<p>I bought a copy of the rulebooks (from <a class="reference external" href="http://www.nobleknight.com/">Noble Knight</a>) at some point,
and can see why so many speak so fondly of it. It is a clear, well
written presentation of the ideas from OD&D with the unevenness sanded
down.</p>
</section>
<section id="advanced-d-d-1e">
<h2>Advanced D&D, 1E</h2>
<p>This was my real introduction to roleplaying games, and continued as
the main game in the groups where I played until college, with
occasional bouts of Tunnels and Trolls. We played mostly homegrown
campaigns; for some reason the AD&D modules didn't work as well for
us.</p>
</section>
<section id="red-box-mentzer-d-d">
<h2>Red Box/Mentzer D&D</h2>
<p>I never got a chance to play Red Box, but I got the PDFs from <a class="reference external" href="http://www.rpgnow.com/">RPGNow</a>.</p>
</section>
<section id="rules-cyclopedia-d-d">
<h2>Rules Cyclopedia D&D</h2>
<p>I heard a lot of folks extolling the virtues of the one-book RC D&D,
so I searched around a found a reasonably priced copy. Well worth the
money. This is without a doubt the most complete-in-one-book version
of D&D, at least until the <a class="reference external" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/pages/rpg-vocabulary/#retro-clone">retro-clones</a>.</p>
</section>
<section id="advanced-d-d-2e">
<h2>Advanced D&D, 2E</h2>
<p>When 2E came out I'd long since moved on from D&D, and had been
playing <em>DragonQuest</em> and <em>GURPS</em> for long while. I played 2E very
briefly, just before 3E came out, with a guy who'd been on a 3E
playtest and hated it.</p>
</section>
<section id="e-d-d">
<h2>3E D&D</h2>
<p>Completely missed playing this at the time, but have played a few
sessions during the 3.5E era with folks who played 3E.</p>
</section>
<section id="e-d-d-1">
<h2>3.5E D&D</h2>
<p>I've played this a fair bit.</p>
<aside class="footnote-list brackets">
<aside class="footnote brackets" id="whatpodcast" role="doc-footnote">
<span class="label"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span><a role="doc-backlink" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/10/06/4e-dnd-admits-what-game-its-always-been/#footnote-reference-1">1</a><span class="fn-bracket">]</span></span>
<p>What podcast did I hear this on? Voice of the
Revolution, said by Paul Tevis?</p>
</aside>
<aside class="footnote brackets" id="wotc-kerfluffle" role="doc-footnote">
<span class="label"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span><a role="doc-backlink" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/10/06/4e-dnd-admits-what-game-its-always-been/#footnote-reference-2">2</a><span class="fn-bracket">]</span></span>
<p>Back when they were still available legally,
before the WotC PDF kerfluffle.</p>
</aside>
</aside>
</section>My Gaming Careerhttps://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/08/02/gaming-career/2008-08-02T11:42:50-05:002008-08-02T11:42:50-05:00T. Kurt Bond<p>This post is unfinished, alas.</p>
<section id="part-i-origins">
<h2>Part I: Origins</h2>
<p>The first <cite>D&D</cite> game I owned was the Holmes blue-box edition of <cite>Basic
D&D</cite>; the first <cite>D&D</cite> game I played was <cite>AD&D</cite> 1E. I was in junior
high when I got the Holmes box set for Christmas from my parents. (If
I am remembering correctly.) That summer I started playing <cite>AD&D</cite>
with a group of my brother's friends from high school, and I played
with them until that group gradually dispersed, some when they left
the state for college, and some when they left the state after college
for jobs elsewhere. I had long been DMing by then.</p>
<p>I remember seeing <cite>OD&D</cite>'s <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldritch_Wizardry">Eldritch Wizardry</a> in the local
hobby store when I first started playing, but I never saw the original
<cite>OD&D</cite> boxed set.</p>
<p>I don't think I ever looked at the later Moldvay/Cook or Mentzer
<cite>Basic D&D</cite> lines, other than buying <cite>Isle of Dread</cite>, thinking like
many that if I was already playing <cite>Advanced D&D</cite> that <cite>Basic D&D</cite>
wouldn't have much to offer. <a class="footnote-reference brackets" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/08/02/gaming-career/#basic-dnd" id="footnote-reference-1" role="doc-noteref"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span>1<span class="fn-bracket">]</span></a></p>
<p>My younger brother joined the group at some point. He got <cite>Tunnels &
Trolls</cite> as a Christmas present one year, from my uncle Chuckie, if I
remember correctly. We played it several times, but it was a simpler
game than <cite>AD&D</cite> and at the time seemed to offer less, though in an
entertaining way. <a class="footnote-reference brackets" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/08/02/gaming-career/#tnt" id="footnote-reference-2" role="doc-noteref"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span>2<span class="fn-bracket">]</span></a></p>
<p><cite>Gamma World</cite>, 1st edition, was probably the first RPG I bought, other
than <cite>AD&D</cite>. (How did we buy the <cite>AD&D</cite> books?) We never played
<cite>Gamma World</cite>, for some reason. Probably because I wasn't able to
figure out the rules, or because it was too gonzo.</p>
<p>While still in junior high, or perhaps my first year in high school, I
ran across <cite>DragonQuest</cite>. Although it was written in a “numbered
rules” style that I was unfamiliar with (having never played wargames)
that required me to read it closely several times through before I
understood any of it, I was fascinated by it from the very first read.
<cite>DQ</cite>'s skills gave all characters interesting distinguishing
abilities, where as in <cite>AD&D</cite> only thieves had similar such abilities
(other classes depending on selection of spells to distinguish the
magic using classes and magic items to distinguish the others.) The
D100 based unified mechanic used by <cite>DQ</cite> was also very attractive, as
was the more detailed combat system. The professional skills seemed
less restrictive and therefore less of a mere game construct than the
equivalent <cite>AD&D</cite> classes. The fact that every character could learn
magic also seemed freeing.</p>
<p>The fact that the only <cite>DQ</cite> adventure that I was able to find at the
time was Paul Jaquays' <cite>The Enchanted Wood</cite> was also a plus, because I
found it to be head and shoulders above any other adventure I had seen
at the time.</p>
<p>I can seen now that most of these things I liked about <cite>DQ</cite> were the
things that added to greater detail in distinguishing characters, as
well as what I called realism them, but today might more accurately
call verisimilitude. I think a good part of it was that by this time
<cite>AD&D</cite> had become its own genre and I wanted something less tied to
those particular tropes. <cite>DQ</cite> seemed to simulate a wider variety of
fantasy than <cite>AD&D</cite>.</p>
<p>I think it is safe to say that I was suffering from an anti-D&D
backlash at this point.</p>
<p>At some point I bought a copy of Avalon Hill's <cite>Powers & Perils</cite>. (If
my memory of buying this from the hobby store in downtown Clarksburg
is correct, I must have bought this fairly early on in my gaming
career.) At some other point I bought Iron Crown's <cite>Rolemaster</cite>.
Both of these blew my mind with complexity. <cite>P&P</cite>'s setting, however,
was another glimpse at a non-<cite>AD&D</cite> fantasy universe.</p>
<p>A friend of mine bought <cite>Traveller</cite> early in our gaming careers. We
tried making characters a couple of times, but were never able to
figure out what we should do with them afterwards — I think we could
never bridge the gap between dungeon crawling and monsters killing
characters in <cite>AD&D</cite> and 40– and 50– year old ex military characters
in Traveller. I don't think we had any <cite>Traveller</cite> adventures to
help us along.</p>
<p>I ran a very successful <cite>DragonQuest</cite> campaign in my first year at
college with three of the original group and a couple of other
players, using Paul Jaquays' wonderful <cite>Enchanted Wood</cite> adventure
setting.</p>
<p>Later in college I started a long-running campaign set in SPI's
minimal <cite>Frontiers of Alusia</cite> setting using <cite>DragonQuest</cite> at the
beginning.</p>
<p>My leaning to greater detail and verisimilitude lead me in time to
<cite>GURPS</cite>, with a small detour along the way for 3rd edition
<cite>RuneQuest</cite>.</p>
<!-- Where did I buy RQ? -->
<p>I bought <cite>RuneQuest</cite>, 3rd edition (<cite>RQ3</cite>, the Deluxe Boxed Set) and
<cite>Griffin Island</cite> (also a boxed set) in stores, somewhere. (I think
this must have been near the time they were released.) Like
<cite>DragonQuest</cite>, I found them fascinating. Unlike <cite>DQ</cite> I never got my
group to successfully play <cite>RQ</cite>. The players found <cite>RQ3</cite> character
generation to be too complicated, alas. <cite>RQ3</cite> and <cite>Griffin Island</cite>
were a glimpse into a style of culture-based gaming that I had never
encountered in my <cite>AD&D</cite> experience, but were complicated enough that
my players hated character generation, and we never got much beyond
that. I never saw <em>any</em> of the Glorantha materials until much, much
later, post Internet. <cite>Griffin Island</cite>, though, even with the
occasional incoherence in its Glorantha-less state, resonated with
more depth than anything I had yet seen. (I never realized, until
years later, that the Paul Jaquays whose <cite>DQ</cite> adventure <cite>The Enchanted
Wood</cite> had so opened my eyes was also one of the authors of <cite>Griffin
Island</cite>! I guess at the time I didn't pay much attention to the
authors/designers of games.)</p>
<p><cite>GURPS</cite> for me was about even more finely grained definition of
characters. Learning from problems my players had with <cite>RuneQuest</cite>
character generation, I created <cite>GURPS</cite> versions of all their
<cite>DragonQuest</cite> characters. Since, in the process of simulating all
their <cite>DQ</cite> abilities with <cite>GURPS</cite>, I'd along the way upgraded their
characters somewhat in power, everybody had fun and it all worked out.
Already accustomed to a hex-based tactical combat system and
role-under skills from <cite>DQ</cite>, it was an easy adjustment to <cite>GURPS</cite>, and
the campaign continued successfully for many more sessions.</p>
<p>I think, however, that later I moved away from <cite>GURPS</cite> because
making/updating characters was such a pain, even with the assistance
of Bill Seuer's <cite>GURPS</cite> <a class="reference external" href="http://www.seurer.net/games/utilities/makechar.html">MAKECHAR</a> program. (Let us just say
that the main villain of the campaign, and evil wizard, ended up a
1000 point character, and all the PCs were 300 point characters.)</p>
<p>Chaosium: <cite>Call of Cthulhu</cite>, <cite>Elric!</cite>, <cite>Stormbringer</cite>, <cite>Prince
Valiant</cite>, <cite>Pendragon</cite>, Universal Supplements.</p>
<p>I ran a short <cite>Elric</cite> campaign after my <cite>Frontiers of Alusia</cite>
campaign. This worked better for my players than <cite>RQ3</cite>, as it used
simpler implementation of Chaosium's house system, <cite>BRP</cite>. Despite
the brevity of this campaign I have fond memories of <cite>Elric</cite>.</p>
</section>
<section id="part-ii-hiatus">
<h2>Part II: Hiatus</h2>
<p>After that there was a hiatus in my gaming. I continued to buy and
read RPG material, but didn't have a regular group.</p>
<aside class="admonition note">
<p class="admonition-title">Note</p>
<p>The rest of this is rambling and desperately needs rewritten.</p>
</aside>
<p>WFRP — First encounted in WD? Then bought main rulebook. At
first dismissive of the rules, but again fascinated by the picture
of the old world and the high quality of some of the adventures.
The one time I tried running WFRP things didn't work out with
my gaming group.</p>
<p>Most of my buying WFRP was during my hiatus?</p>
<p>I really only came to understand <cite>RuneQuest</cite> during my hiatus from
gaming, in the 90s, when I started seriously to track down the <cite>RQ3</cite>
material I'd never know about, including the post RQ3 fanzines. I
even found a copy of <cite>RQ2</cite> in a game store in Austin, Texas, while there
on travel for work.</p>
<p><cite>RQ</cite> found … earlier than <cite>GURPS</cite>, later? but only understood much later
in 90s during my serious <cite>RQ</cite> buying days after I ran a long <cite>GURPS</cite> campaign
(<cite>Call of Cthulhu</cite>/<cite>Elric</cite> helped understand/like RQ?) and bought <cite>RQ2</cite>.
Early GURPS gaming at college BAMF?
Compare to dates of Alusia becoming <cite>GURPS</cite>?</p>
<p>Tékumel. Call of Cthulhu. Jorune.</p>
</section>
<section id="part-iii-gaming-again">
<h2>Part III: Gaming Again!</h2>
<p>Hiatus ends. <cite>Fudge</cite> <cite>Bunnies & Burrows</cite>, <cite>BESM</cite>, <cite>Buggin</cite>, Toon,
<cite>Savage Worlds</cite> with kids.</p>
<p>Reading <a class="reference external" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Eric_Holmes">John Eric Holmes</a>'s <cite>Fantasy Role
Playing Games - Dungeons, Dragons and Adventures in Fantasy Gaming</cite>
(ISBN 0-88254-514-0) at work leads to other gamers, and some
<cite>D&D</cite> 3.5e and <cite>Star Wars D20</cite> gaming, and eventually to <cite>Savage
Worlds</cite>.</p>
<p>After my hiatus from gaming, I was looking for simpler games.
<cite>Fudge</cite>, <cite>BESM</cite>, and finally <cite>Savage Worlds</cite>.</p>
<p>Retro-gaming: interest in early classic <cite>AD&D</cite> modules we missed
(which lead to <cite>Wilderlands</cite> and <cite>Tegel Manor</cite> then <cite>Badabaskor</cite>,
<cite>Caverns of Thracia</cite>, etc. then 3e/3.5e reprints) which lead to
buying lots of PDF games including classic <cite>BD&D</cite> module B10 (superb!)
leading to RC purchases, then other <cite>BD&D</cite> modules and <cite>AD&D</cite> modules,
pondering running <cite>BD&D</cite> for B20, then buying <cite>Thunder Rift</cite>, Mystara
interest online maps, retro clones to original D&D interest, buy PDFs
from rpgnow, pondering running <cite>OD&D</cite>, <cite>Swords & Wizardry</cite>, download
retro modules for <cite>OD&D</cite>, philotomy, other current <cite>OD&D</cite> player/gm
sites/campaigns/blogs, more JG and understanding which JG were <cite>OD&D</cite>,
more pondering <cite>BD&D</cite> for B10 and other B/X modules, and finding the
<cite>OD&D</cite> <cite>Caverns of Thracia</cite>, by Paul Jaquays!</p>
<p>Road building costs in JG Ready-Ref sheets! (PDF just as confusing as
I remember printouts! Did Ray end up with them?) [2019-11-10: I ended
up buying a new copy of the Ready-Ref sheets over the internet several
years later!]</p>
<p>parallel thread: tactile pleasures: card, bennies, status chips,</p>
<p>custom poker chips for wounds, shaken</p>
<aside class="footnote-list brackets">
<aside class="footnote brackets" id="basic-dnd" role="doc-footnote">
<span class="label"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span><a role="doc-backlink" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/08/02/gaming-career/#footnote-reference-1">1</a><span class="fn-bracket">]</span></span>
<p>Boy, was I wrong! After the <a class="reference external" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/pages/rpg-vocabulary/#retro-clone">retro-clones</a> started to
appear, especially <cite>Labyrinth Lord</cite>, I bought the Moldvay/Cook
<cite>Basic/Expert</cite> rules, and was pleasantly impressed.</p>
</aside>
<aside class="footnote brackets" id="tnt" role="doc-footnote">
<span class="label"><span class="fn-bracket">[</span><a role="doc-backlink" href="https://tkurtbond.github.io/posts/2008/08/02/gaming-career/#footnote-reference-2">2</a><span class="fn-bracket">]</span></span>
<p>We completely missing out on the flexibility of the T&T
saving roll system — not surprising, since we never saw any of the
T&T solos that used it so extensively — and how that gave T&T gamist
tactical play without complicated rules, unlike D&D 3e and 3.5e. I
think we'd have played T&T more if we'd understood that, but I
only really understood after reading some of comments Ron Edwards
made about T&T in 2003, first in the rpg.net thread <a class="reference external" href="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46923">Sell me Tunnels & Trolls!</a>
(<a class="reference external" href="http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=858516&postcount=13">his post</a>), and
then in a series of followup threads at
<a class="reference external" href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/">the Forge</a>: <a class="reference external" href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=6272">1</a>,
<a class="reference external" href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=6355">2</a>,
<a class="reference external" href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7104">3</a>,
<a class="reference external" href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=7863">4</a>).</p>
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<p><em>Last edited: 2021-08-09 11:47:21 EDT</em></p>
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